We are told that being unemployed is one of the most stressful times of a person’s life, but what does that mean and what’s it like being young and unemployed in Britain today? I’ve seen first-hand exactly what it’s like for a few young people; my friends, my family and formerly myself. We are from different backgrounds and the experience of being unemployed has affected all of us differently.

Britain’s unemployment system; though better than a few other countries is still very odd, bureaucratic, stressful and ineffectual. Britain’s politician’s favourite game is to tamper with it. Originally (Under midterm labour) the unemployed were left to get on with it, producing a job search every 2 weeks to prove they had been looking. Incentives and help was offered, such as a scheme where jobseekers could claim back the costs of transport after a job interview (Immensely helpful), or would be given help with CV’s, courses to raise the jobseekers education qualifications (Providing NVQ’S in things like first aid, health and safety and food preparation, etc). They even assisted with finding interview clothes. During the 2 week meeting the jobseeker could talk to the adviser who would make an honest attempt at providing help and support.

Despite this help I and a family member found it hard to get a job, I had an undergraduate degree whilst the other family member had D’s in their GCSE’s. It took me over 2 years to secure a part time role which I’m still in today; during that time I did a range a jobs including night work in a supermarket (10 hours a night (2 hours transport) earning 5p over minimum wage), worked at the Olympics briefly but travel costs meant I could only break even, and a range of other roles.

The family member has struggled ever since they left school over 7 years ago. Though they tried to get additional education they found it quite difficult; though did complete a self-funded course which unfortunately has an expiry date meaning it must be renewed.  Though they have secured jobs they have never earned much over the £53 pounds a week they would have gotten on Jobseekers, additionally they tried to go self-employed working for a company but because of their status had to pay tax and earned very little. The job centre payments are also erratic and sometimes Jobcentre staff find arbitrary reasons not to pay the family member causing more stress. the system left the young jobseeker feeling completely worthless, with many of the roles paying below minimum wage and offering very few if any rights due to the massive gaps in the law that leave workers unprotected.

The situations gotten worse, my family member was part of one of the private company’s unemployment schemes that got 0.5% of jobseekers back into work. My family member is now required to attend the job centre daily or their meagre benefit will be cut for 2 weeks. Additionally they are required to log onto the government’s (unhelpful) website daily, using their 12 digit code and enter the steps they have taken to find work. They were also not paid 2 weeks income owing to having used the wrong bit of paper for job searching about a month ago.

The current job seekers rate is £56.80 a week, which sounds a lot but would buy you about 40 items in a supermarket, or two trips to London, or the average restaurant bill – in short it’s not a lot of money to live on if you include a lot of expanses and have bills to pay. Additionally it’s extremely stressful to not know if they will pay you this month or not.

My family member’s latest job was awful; for a start they were expected to construct the shops interior. They were initially required to work 12 hour shifts (7 days a week) and were not allowed breaks (the construction involved heavy lifting). Additionally the shop was paying £6 an hour (below minimum wage) and refused to offer its staff contracts. My family member was told they would be working 12 hours a day 7 days a week – all without a contract and without a guarantee of even being paid. Employees were also required to use chairs as step ladders and were not allowed breaks despite the law saying they should have a 20 min break after 6 hours. One shift my family member was yelled at 3 times and was told “If you don’t like it quit, there are plenty more workers begging for a job.” My family member hurt their back on the second 12 hour shift, went back 3 days later and started again for 4 more days before they, and other staff left.

When the family member signed on again her “unpaid” wages were deducted from their jobseekers allowance. It’s been over a month and the family member has not been paid for the time they worked. What can they do? –working tribunals take years and require upfront costs, because there was no paperwork the police don’t care, There is nobody out there to protect workers’ rights. It seems “99p” stores do have a hidden cost.

I know what you’re thinking; why doesn’t the family member get a job? Well recently 250 people went for 1 unskilled job in a local shop. It’s really not easy for people to find a job and the government only seems to inflict more stress on people instead of offering help. A number of years ago unemployment lead a friend I used to know to attempt suicide by taking an overdose. The overwhelming feelings of worthlessness, unwontedness and stress lead them into attempting suicide, and although they regretted the act (which didn’t succeed) it just shows how difficult it is for young NEETS in the UK. This friend eventually hooked up with an abusive partner and is now a full time mother, although I have lost contact with her due to the controlling nature of her relationship.

To summarise; long term unemployment is a horrendous thing to inflict on a person. No wonder so many people are turning to crime, or drugs and alcohol, or anything else to lessen the feeling of shame, of guilt, of unwontedness and of worthlessness that they feel. When they do find a work it’s often on a 10 hour a week contract where 100% of their earnings will be deducted from their benefits. These jobs also don’t tend to last once the government subsidies dry up. This measure does make the unemployment rate seem better (which is the government’s goal.)

The long term unemployed feel like they are being punished instead of being helped; if they do secure a very low paid role then they can find they are no better off. Working is good, but when you’ve been living in near poverty every pound really matters to you and working for free isn’t very reassuring.  Also after years without stable employment many people find working to be initially stressful, and the 0% increase in income just adds to this stress. The government is now talking about forcing unemployed people to attend the job centre for 8 hours a day; I suspect this is a ploy to intimidate people into working, and to make their other actions seem more moderate in comparison. Yet another psychological weapon used against people seeking a place in society.

What’s the answer then? We’ll the numerous & crazy government schemes have all but failed and have incurred huge costs in terms of money, economic growth, increased crime and despair. The iron fist approach, as well as fear and intimidation tactics has only exacerbated the situation. What we need is a multifaceted approach with assistance offered on a personal basis designed to help the individual. Proper skills training for people of all ages would be useful for those that would benefit; Reintroduction of EMA or another funding mechanism (for all ages) would also help people looking to reskill. Proper government funded (guaranteed) work experience would also be very useful and the person working should be paid for their time, properly. Some people need some space: Not everybody’s suited to being harassed continuously (daily attendance and job searches… a 2 week basis is adequate). Also guaranteed income would also be useful; it’s hard to survive when your income could be cut at any second for any reason. I would also like to see a scheme where unemployed people were guaranteed a properly paid job after some time and would also like to see people who have got a job retain at least 60% of their benefit meaning they would always be better off working even on a part time basis. These schemes would save money in the long run, support; not penalisation is the answer.

I would also like to see optional education packs for every unemployed person; where they can undertake an educational course (like an Open University style course) and can leave at any time and still be graded (1/4 completed, ½ completed, etc). This would give unemployed people something to do that’s proactive and something they can achieve that will boost their skills and confidence without costing much – and have a real qualification to show after it. Most of the educational training could be given away on DVD, or via a website; and assignments completed online or sent through the mail.

We will continue to look for jobs: all most unemployed people ask is understanding and to know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Lastly the job centre does seem to treat people with utter contempt and the number of pointless bureaucratic hoops seems to have multiplied over time and will probably continue to do so.

Written by David Beck – www.dwbeck.com

To whom it may concern,

Give me the fortitude to change what I can change;

And to accept what I can’t.

To love myself and others unconditionally;

And show understanding and compassion to all equally.

To work to serve, and preserve all life;

And the systems that support it.

To look after myself so that I may look after mankind;

And the universal family that is life.

To never give in to doubt and fear;

And strive to be the best I can be.  

To love and honour those that came before me;

And to build a better world for those who come after.

–          David Beck

1:15am
David William Beck
Your right, Evolution isn’t true….. The truth is there is an old magical man in the sky with magical powers who made us in the most extraordinary way. Some people wrote a few books about this guy with some rules you can pick and choose from. There’s no proof…. but we believe in the old magic man anyhow it’s so obvious!

1:19am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Whats your proof of evolution sir? Telling me that I shouldn’t believe in God? IS that really all you’ve got? Show me where the rubber hits the road. Show me a species turning into another. Show me some information gaining process.

1:25am
David William Beck
Hello. I’m just trying to say that there is overwhelming evidence for evolution and none for God. 95% of Christians in the UK believe in evolution anyhow. I’m very sorry to say that…. because you said ‘Show me a species turning into another’ you clearly don’t have any clue about what the theory of evolution is. It’s such a shame in an English speaking country you’ve had such a poor education, I’m not blaming you for your beliefs, it’s more pity.

1:28am
David William Beck
I should answer your questions if you want me to
Creatures are changing all the time. You get around half your DNA (the code that affects so much of who you are) from your mum and dad. it’s basic but important.

1:29am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Show me some proof, I should say it’s so sad that you are brainwashed into believing macro-evolution and cannot cite a specific example. How’s that?

1:29am
David William Beck
Ok, I can state examples
do you believe in selective breeding (like breeding a cow to produce more milk or a pig to produce more fat)
it’s been around for centuries. You should know the basic’s anyhow.

1:31am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Is cow breeding macro-evolution, a species turing into another and information gaining?

1:31am
David William Beck
that’s an example of macro human lead evolution, it’s hard to deny.
Yes it is
a simple one,

1:32am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
You do NOT know what macro-evolution is, my friend.

1:32am
David William Beck
Yes I do

1:32am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Clearly you just proved otherwise

1:33am
David William Beck
animals take many years to change. smaller, faster reproducing ones change faster

1:33am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Show me some proof

1:33am
David William Beck
Ok, what sort of proof would you like?
Do you believe human’s helped change wolves into dogs?
That’s an example of macro evolution.

1:34am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
of a species gaining information and gaining new novel features, like an elephant trunk, a long neck, complex eyes

1:35am
David William Beck
Ohhhhh of course I can. These things evolved over, normally millions of years
You see a small change in a creatures DNA gives it an advantage, and over many years these changes, through trial and error add up
If horses with longer necks get more food, than the genes for long necks become more popular
give it a few hundred thousand years and we have giraffe’s
Additionally we gain new information every day, with every cold, virus, etc.
BRB… 2 minutes,

1:38am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
That is quite an unproven theory, you are referring to variation, dogs and wolves are from same species. There is no way a single cell bacteria could gain infomation to turn into a human
I’ll catch up tomorrow if you care to debate, Regards

1:42am
David William Beck
In evolution the idea is that we all share one common ancestor, so we are all in a way the same species, all life related
I’m back
Dog’s and wolves have diverged from each other, but not by that much.
Other creatures diverged at an earlier time, but all life is related like I said
In Christianity all human’s are related to Adam. In evolution we are also all related to common ancestor. Tell me, Was Adam Black?… How did the human race gain so many variations without evolution? Was it *God’s magic* or maybe God designed evolution as part of his system.
**Also all the answers you seek are readily available. If your genuinely interested maybe have a look at some, or watch some TV shows about the natural world.

1:59am
David William Beck
Mutation’s the classic way that cells gain information, every human has on average 10 mutations. Think about mankind like a painting, starting with a single brush stroke and the building up…. in this case over 1 billion years. Have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolutionary_history_of_life

Timeline of evolutionary history of life – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org
This timeline of evolution of life outlines the major events in the development of life on planet Earth since it originated until the present day. In biology, evolution is any change across successive generations in the heritable characteristics of biological populations. Evolutionary processes give…

2:04am
David William Beck
When you read this could you please tell me what your problems with the theory of evolution are and I will try and answer them. Additionally what’s the alternative to evolution? Do you think it’s possible that some old nasty judgmental God thing did all this? Is there any more proof that God did it that the sugar plumb fairy?
December 18, 2012

4:19pm
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
You are stating that mutations are information gaining? I heartily disagree with you. Look all all the diseases caused by mutations/genetic disorders and tell me which represent helpful, informational gaining ones:
Achondroplasia – most common genetic cause of dwarfism
Achromatopsia – visual acuity loss, colorblindness, light sensitivity, and nystagmus
Acid Maltase Deficiency – accumulation of glycogen stored in muscles causing respiratory failure
Albinism – little or no production of melanin in hair, skin, and iris of the eyes
Alzheimer’s Disease – most common form of dementia
Angelman Syndrome – intellectual and developmental delays, severe speech impairment and problems in movement and balance, recurrent seizures and small heads
Bardet-Biedl Syndrome – obesity, polydactyly, deterioration of rod and cone cells, mental retardation and defect in the gonads, and kidney disease
Barth Syndrome – mutations or alterations in the BTHS gene, heart defects, poor skeletal musculature, short stature, mitochondrial abnormalities, and deficiency of white blood cells
Bipolar Disorder – highly elevated moods due to genetic and environmental factors
Bloom Syndrome – high frequency of breaks and rearrangements in the chromosomes
Canavan Disease – steady damage to nerve cells in the brain
Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease – touch sensation and loss of muscle tissue
Color Blindness – inability of differentiating among certain colors
Cri-du-Chat Syndrome – spontaneous deletion of a segment of chromosome 5 during formation of egg or sperm or during early stages of fetal development
Cystic Fibrosis – autosomal recessive disorder secreting mucus and sweat
Down Syndrome – abnormal cell division of chromosome 21
Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy – rapidly gradual muscle weakness and damaged muscular tissue in the pelvis and legs
Fatty Oxidation – inability to oxidize (breakdown) fatty acids
Fragile X Syndrome – inherited form of mental retardation
Galactosemia – body’s inability to break down galactose
Hailey-Hailey Disease – blistering rashes on body folds
Hemophilia – body’s inability to control bleeding (interior or exterior, or both)
Huntington’s Disease – production of a faulty protein instead of the normal “huntingtin” protein
Jackson-Weiss Syndrome – foot abnormalities and premature fusion of bones in the skull
Klinefelter Syndrome – abnormal testicular evolution and decreased fertility
Krabbe Disease – mutation in the GALC gene
Langer-Giedion Syndrome – deletion or mutation of at least two genes on chromosome 8
Lesch-Nyhan Syndrome – deficiency of the enzyme hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyltransferase (HPRT)
Lowe Syndrome – physical and mental retardation
Marfan Syndrome – genetic disorder of the connective tissue
Muscular Dystrophy – progressive weakening and breaking down of muscle fibers
Myotonic Dystrophy – wasting of the muscles, cataracts, heart conduction defects, endocrine changes, and myotonia
Nail-Patella Syndrome – lack of nail and knee caps
Neurofibromatosis – development of tumors along the different nerves and evolution of non-nervous tissues, like skin and bones
Noonan Syndrome – heart malformations, short stature, characteristic facial features, impaired blood clotting, and indentation of the chest
Osteogenesis Imperfecta – weakened muscles, brittle bones, curved spine, and impaired hearing
Parkinson’s Disease – impairment of the central nervous system
Patau Syndrome – non-disjunction of chromosome 13
Phenylketonuria – mental retardation, seizures, or brain damage
Porphyria – accumulation of porphyrin or its precursors in the body
Prune Belly Syndrome – presence of mass of wrinkled skin on the abdomen
Retinoblastoma – cancer of the retina
Rett Syndrome – decreased rate of head growth, small hands and feet, disabilities related to learning communication, coordination and speech
Russell Silver Syndrome – poor growth, low birth weight, short height, and differences in the size of the two sides of the body
Sanfilippo Syndrome – deficiency in one of the enzymes needed to break down the glycosaminoglycan heparan sulfate
Schizencephaly – abnormal development of the brain
Shwachman Syndrome – exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, bone marrow dysfunction, skeletal abnormalities, and short stature
Sickle Cell Anemia – blood disorder causing sickling of the red blood cells
Smith-Lemli-Opitz Syndrome – distinctive facial features, small head size (microcephaly), intellectual disability or learning problems, and behavioral problems
Spina Bifidia – malformations of the spinal cord
TAR Syndrome – absence of the radius bone in the forearm and reduced platelet count
Tay-Sachs Disease – damage of the nerve cells in brain and spinal cord
Turner Syndrome – lack of either one whole or a part of an X chromosome
Usher Syndrome – deafness and progressive loss of vision
Von Hippel-Lindau Syndrome – formation of tumors and fluid-filled sacs (cysts) in different parts of the body
Waardenburg Syndrome – varying degrees of deafness and changes in hair and skin pigmentation
Wilson’s Disease – body’s inability to get rid of excess copper in the body
Xeroderma Pigmentosum – inability of the DNA to repair damage caused due to ultraviolet rays
XXXX Syndrome – two extra copies of the X chromosome in females
XXX Syndrome – extra copy of the X chromosome in females
XYY Syndrome – extra copy of the Y chromosome in males
I am amazed to see that an evolutionist as yourself is without hostility, your cohorts are full of it.
December 18, 2012

11:46pm
David William Beck
hello. That’s a good list of mutations you have there, proof in it’s self that ether God was incredibly sloppy (or enjoys watching us suffer) or that we evolved. There are indeed many beneficial mutations, infant everything about us evolved over time. I could of course give you many examples of changes our species has undergone throughout time (even back to the first animal cell), but i’ll just focus on two for now. The miR-941 gene mutation very quickly gave the human race superior intelligence, a significant advantage.
A recent mutation that’s become very popular is the ability to digest dairy products using lactase. There was a time when the entire human race couldn’t digest milk after the first few years of life. The mutation that allowed people to digest milk was of course very beneficial and allowed people with it to get more nutrition and survive better. Nearly all of us Europeans have the gene, but in parts of Asia like China and Japan where milk isn’t in the diet they don’t have it. (look it up)
Natural selection will generally favor healthier creatures better able to survive, and so their genes become more numerous. This isn’t theory, it’s cold hard fact being used on a daily basis around the world on a daily basis.
I’m going to be controversial for a second here. If you look at athletic ability around the world, parts of Africa, like Kenya produce the worlds best distance runners. Genetically they are unparalleled at distance running. In parts of the world, like Jamaica former slaves were selectively bread for power and indeed these places have the best powers runners in the world. You believe in genes, you believe in mutations, you believe in natural selection, What part of evolution don’t you agree with?
**On a side note, you asked how we gain genetic information, well you stated above XXX syndrome, I don’t know how good you are with math but it’s clear there are more than 2 X’s and it’s proof that the amount of genetic information can change over time.

12:52am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
The benefits that you discuss are simply variation and are not at all molecules to man evolution, in fact, just the opposite. As for milk intolerance, it is in fact normal to be that way, when children are weaned off of milk is a gene not being switched off, not an example of new genetic information. As for blacks being good athletes, I could go into a whole diatribe for reasons why it appears that way now, but perhaps not earlier or in the future and much has to do with culture. Why are some white athletes better then other whites? variation is all.
IS the mir-941 gene just one in a myriad that makes us different from naked mole rats?
So what mutations do you cite that can give rise from a simple cell to a complete creature? Do you know the disastrous narrative about the fruitflies?
-Best
December 20, 2012

12:56am
David William Beck
Hello, I’ll write some more tomorow.
for now have a look at this:
The basic timeline of a 4.6 billion year old Earth, with approximate dates:
3.6 billion years of simple cells (prokaryotes),
3.4 billion years of stromatolites demonstrating photosynthesis,
2 billion years of complex cells (eukaryotes),
1 billion years of multicellular life,
600 million years of simple animals,
570 million years of arthropods (ancestors of insects, arachnids and crustaceans),
550 million years of complex animals,
500 million years of fish and proto-amphibians,
475 million years of land plants,
400 million years of insects and seeds,
360 million years of amphibians,
300 million years of reptiles,
200 million years of mammals,
150 million years of birds,
130 million years of flowers,
65 million years since the dinosaurs died out,
2.5 million years since the appearance of the genus Homo,
200,000 years of anatomically modern humans,
25,000 years since the disappearance of Neanderthal traits from the fossil record.
13,000 years since the disappearance of Homo floresiensis from the fossil record.
What exactly don’t you understand? Ask Google.
You never did state an alternative to the main steam theory’s.
Ok, just for you. (from memory) One of the huge changes that happened to cells changing them from single cells to more complex cells was chance fusion of the Mitochondria and plant cells. Mitochondria produced huge amounts of energy and the plant cell could give stability. (see the time line above). The two worked really well and allowed for more complex life to evolve.
Do you have any idea how long a billion years is? It took a long time to happen but it did happen. Any more questions?
I’ll write more tomorow.

1:50am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
radiometric dating and c-14 are proving more unreliable with anomalys and disrepancies and possible false assumptions so the billions of years narrative may not be so. Things that have been stated to be millions of years old and still having carbon in them are proving troublesome. If radiometric dating fails to give an accurate date on something of which we do know the true age, then how can it be trusted to give us the correct age for rocks that had no observers to record when they formed? Mount St. Helens,Washington in 1986 formed lava rocks that were dated up to 2.8 million years old !!! whats with that?
Anyway speaking of prokaryotes,eukaryotes where did the information come from that we see in DNA?
December 20, 2012

11:59am
David William Beck
I don’t really care about dating technology. I know the earth is ancient. Just look at, for example the Grand cannon, that’s got to be many millions of years old. My own history in the UK goes back past 60,000 years and there are still artifacts from then, some on display in the British museum. What about the movements of the continents? they provide some accurate dating information. What about the layers of ice around the world that record many many thousands of years of history. We can use Red shift tech to date the universe as well as many other techniques. We of often meet at Stonehenge once a year for a huge party and that structures 5000 years old.
When you deny our history your insulting your ancestors and their struggle. Do you have any proof the world isn’t as old as everyone thinks?
December 20, 2012

4:27pm
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
This seems to be getting helter skelter as far as conversation goes. What I want to know is the proof of molecules to man evolution that makes evolution a fact.
December 24, 2012

2:10am
David William Beck
hello, sorry I took so long to respond.
Proof of molecules to man evolution that makes evolution a fact? So your asking me to give you 3.6 billion years worth of data on the evolution of life?
For a start science does not deal in facts, rather theory’s. There is overwhelming evidence for evolution, as there is overwhelming evidence gravity’s real.
If you really want to know more there is a lot of literature on the subject. I have not personally read it but I would recommend you read:
The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution
Give it a go!
The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution
www.amazon.com
Richard Dawkins transformed our view of God in his blockbuster, The God Delusion, which sold more than 2 million copies in English alone. He revolutionized the way we see natural selection in the seminal bestseller The Selfish Gene. Now, he launches a fierce counterattack against proponents of “I…

2:12am
David William Beck
Maybe you can recommend a good book for me to read that’s supporting the case against evolution, or other theory’s.
December 31, 2012

8:49pm
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Well, can macro evolution be tested and observed as science requires?
As for molecules to man, As for the many thousands of generations of bacteria observed, citrate adaptation is about all you have to show that bacteria is still just that, a bacteriam. Fruitflies, the same thing, NO speciation observed. How come?
January 2

11:27pm
David William Beck
it’s late and I’m tired. I’ll write a better response tomorow. There is an extremely strong case for macro evolution.
Still, what’s the alternative to macro evolution? Can you give supporting evidence for this view?
January 4

11:39pm
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
Well there, did you get your rest? Would you be awake enuf to venture a guess as to why no speciation has been observed with fruitflies? Over thousands of generations and mutations?

1:16am
David William Beck
some creatures like fruit flies, even when genetically modified can revert to normal after some time, true. I’ve seen a fruit fly that’s been modified to have about 20 eyes.
Look, if you believe genetics works than clearly so does macro evolution. You also never answered my question.
Has life always been the same? No, There is a HUGE amount of data that suggests life changes over time. Just look at the human fossil record: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossils
Could there be some magic man in the sky who made all life, the planet and the universe? No way! That’s ridiculous. Certainly the blundering buffoon described my most religions is a joke. There is absolutely no evidence, to any objective mind it’s madness.
So what’s left? Macro evolution so nicely describes how life came to be that it seems almost certain. Is there another alternative?

List of human evolution fossils – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org
The following charts give a brief overview of several notable primatefossil finds relating to human evolution. As there are thousands of fossils, mostly fragmentary, often consisting of single bones or isolated teeth with complete skulls and skeletons rare,[1] this overview is not meant to be comple…

3:21am
David William Beck
>Why have you changed topics from macro-evolution to Theology?
As far as I can tell there are two models of how life came to be. There is the ‘creation myth’, that some powerful being created some or all of the world, and an evolution based model. I may have assumed, that if your arguing against one then you may be in favour of the other.
Both the creation theory and an evolution based theory should be tested, and generally speaking the evidence overwhelmingly suggests an evolution based theory is far more likely.
I also strongly disagree with you about ‘The domain of supernatural is outside the scope of Science’. “How the universe and life was created” is one of the biggest questions in science and if it was created by an intelligent entity than of course its scientific fact. If science seeks the truth then of course the existence of God is a matter for science. For example if it’s real then where does it exist? What is it? How did it build something as complex as the universe?
I would argue the petrol analogy is a good one. Aren’t you looking for a supernatural explanation of how the
I also believe nature can be answered mathematically. There is a whole branch of science that deals with patterns and the structures of life forms in nature. There is a really good book on the subject, I’ll try and find out what it’s called and get back to you. It’s a truly amazing and beautiful subject.
Existence can, and does exist without a God. (Unless God’s many of the forces that bind the universe together like electromagnetism and gravity). There are alternative theory’s that seem far more likely about how we came to be than ‘there was a magic man in the sky who did it’. In the past the God theories were all we had, but I hope the human race is moving on from that now.
Religion seems to answer very few questions. You even said ‘There is mystical stuff we can’t understand’. Science is answering more questions every day about who we are and how we came to be whilst religion stays alive by perpetuating ignorance to maintain its control over most of the world’s people.
By proof I basically mean a reason to believe. Is there a reason to believe? I have never found one. There are a few reasons like ‘I will suffer if I don’t submit’ or ‘there is an old book that says…’, I would say personally I don’t find these arguments very persuasive…. But some others do.
I have a great deal of respect for the early Mohammedan scientists. They did lead the world in scientific thought at the time and I have read some of their work. I believe, based on what I read, that Islam should still be leading the world in science and technology, you have to wonder why it’s not. Of course the early Mohammedan scientists also believed the Greeks were hellhound.
DNA is of course a very beautiful code, one of the most beautiful and wonderful I have ever seen. If I ever have a child, it’s genetic code will be unique in the universe. It’s really nothing to do with God (Unless God hand crafts every sperm and egg and combines them, etc). It seems clear to me that even if God did start the universe it’s currently running without its intervention. Simple life has also been created from dead chemical components:
http://voices.yahoo.com/scientists-create-artificial-life-living-organism-6070036.html
Don’t you think it’s possible, in a similar way the first life was created in a similar way to how we create life today? And that, over billions of years that life could change, adapt, mutate and evolve?
You also said that ‘common ancestry can easily mean common design.’ If this is true then animals can’t evolve from what they were created as. I have proof that macro evolution does happen, Please read the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox
In the link above, Humans physically and significantly altered the behaviour, appearance and genetic code of the wild Silver fox. We have changed their nature and almost everything about them. In a short space of time, through breeding for tameness we created a new species. Clearly God didn’t do this, this was human focused macro evolution in action.
This means that, ether God made animals so that macro evolution is possible, or that life was not designed, I hope you understand.
Well I would say humanism was a sort of science, though you could argue it’s an art. Psychology, sociology, neurology and biology all seek to understand and explain human behaviour using science. Even economics’ has a go at trying to understand human and predict human actions.
The problem is all those messengers and prophets have had varying opinions about what we should be doing. Even within Islam the Shia and Sunni factions find things to disagree about.
I agree that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are related historically, and all three are popular, but with thousands of denominations in Christianity alone it’s hard to say they all share a common root. Also I don’t know if the polytheist Hindu faith’s share the same root. (am I right in saying the root is God)? I also wouldn’t count atheism as a faith because atheists simply don’t believe in a God. There are many atheist religions, for example Taoism and Shintoism in Japan. Atheists also aren’t a group and don’t share any beliefs or ideology’s, other than not believing there is no God.
I really don’t think it’s at all degrading to acknowledge the past struggles of our species and our drive to build a better world for our children. I’m sure you’ll agree Human technology has evolved, and that it’s not degrading to use stone tools. In the same way, every generation has battled to do the best they can to survive and it’s this fight to be better that has driven us to where we are. The first humans were believed to be amazing hunter gatherers. They had to be fast and smart and strong, migrating with the game to keep fed. Protein gave us significant advantages, allowing for brain and muscle development over many generations. The quest for land and food drove us out of Africa and around the word, Our large social brains and high intelligence giving us amazing adaptability in new environments. Later human technology advanced and we discovered various farming technology allowing us to build permanent towns and community’s. We domesticated animals and really advanced from there. Intelligence (especially verbal) is sexy and gave us significant advantages within the community. Do you think it’s degrading to be an athlete? We were never ‘monkey’s, we were and still are a kind of Ape. ‘Human even means ‘wise ape’. I don’t think being a human is degrading in the least bit.
>> Actually the so called “issue” of resources is one of massive mismanagement (by humans). The earth produces far more resources that can be consumed by 10x the number of the current global population.
I agree, if every human was to live in slums and farm, we could have a very large population, but what’s the point?
Still for many thousands of years before fossil fuel technology’s the global population was pretty stagnant. When these resources are exhausted is there any reason why we won’t return to the previous state: Only with a depleted biosphere and many other problems?
>>Why? why not just destroy everything? if you want to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist then you need to follow it to its logical conclusion which is nihilism, that is “no purpose, no meaning, no right, no wrong, no mind, no beauty, just nothingness”.
I disagree with your conclusion. Without religion we would still have culture, pleasure and pain, law (if only manmade), we create meaning and must search harder for what we want to do with our lives. Really nothing changes without God, people would still believe in religions and everything would be the same.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the universe is full of it. Just look at the beautiful fractal (and other) patterns in nature, the beauty of looking up at the stars, of a sunrise and sunset, and so much else.
Also all the research I’ve read says that atheists have a stronger sense of right and wrong, and are just as well behaved, even though they follow the law of man and not the law of God.
Thank you for the link, I will have a good read of the website.
Kind regards
David Beck

Scientists Create Artificial Life — a Living Organism from Bottled Chemicals
voices.yahoo.com
Using four bottles of chemicals and a computer, scientists at laboratories in Maryland and California, led by genome pioneer Craig Venter, succeeded in creating life — a bacterial organism. Venter and his teams of scientists created what they call…
January 9

12:05am
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
David, that was a LONG post, I had to read twice to follow but time does not allow to address every point. The reason I say science does not explain everything becasue God is not “up in the sky” as you like to say, but in another dimension out of reach to us all mortals and science. You would dispute the existence of other realms? You are that sure of yourself that all you can sense is all that exists? Nothing more, you are certain?
So can macro evolution be tested and observed as science requires?
Have you seen a fruitfly turn into something other then a fruitfly? Even after thousands of generations, you get JUST THE OPPOSITE! A 20 eyed fruitfly has problems, this is de-evolution. How does macro-evolution clearly work, as you say, when never been observed?
January 19

12:09am
David William Beck

Timeline Photos
Member Quote: “Even if such a creature many call god did exist I would not wors…See More
By: Atheist Quotes Of The Day

12:14am
David William Beck
it’s cool if you want to ignore the evidence, I won’t be doing so. Still, if I had to worship one of those monstrous Christian Gods I would go with Lucifer, the light bringer, over Yahweh any day. I hope you don’t believe in ether, but if you must believe in them, you should give your patronage to the smarter, less violent, less bigoted one. Christian God’s killed billions of people and has no doubt inspired the most monstrous acts in the history of the world.

12:14am
David William Beck
Today

11:32pm
IS-Evolution A-Fraud
I’m back after losing my pwd, but oh well.
So you are an atheist and you use evolution to try to explain and justify not believing in God?

12:37am
David William Beck
I’m sorry you lost your pwd, no I was an atheist from about age 6 onward. My first school was religious and the head mistress loved teaching the old testament to the kids. The idea this all powerful thing was reading my mind all the time, reading my thoughts made me crazy. It’s awful to tell a small child that if he thinks the wrong thing he could end up in hell. I enjoyed the stories and the religious songs we sung, but we were also taught to fear God. I just never really thought such an awful thing (god) could be real. Of course at that age I had never considered the origin of species.

12:40am
David William Beck
even if I were religious I would of course believe in evolution because it’s such a beautiful idea with overwhelming evidence.

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rich parents who died…..

Eden institute: where James grew up in China. (14) filtered air, beautiful sun, perfect American childhood. ‘fake’. foster parents, banned from talking about outside world.

eco-terrorists….

corporate rich…… rich *titanic sunk.

populations becoming digital, old, sick…. all ** …digital people cause 10 times less carbon/energy when digital… creating worlds.

ruled by an AI. is it alive….

are we in control for more than a second? are digital people really alive? easily manipulated… happy sad…..

eyeballs & ears to see digital’s…..

wash your face in nanite water ***make marketing slogan.

synthesised food

Coral complex – creates pure air and food,

blow up the world….. create coral complex’s…… or…….
make the world digital…..
or… keep it the same.

world dying.

James & other characters

‘LOOK AT The world we’ve made! people starvig, nanite poisoning, massive inequality,.,….

‘we don’t have anything to share… rich.

We can solve the worlds problems through technology’

Eden project…. destroy the cancer….. save the body!!!! **Eden**

I first came across this question whilst walking down a lazy road on a warm sunny day. There were three people employed by the council to cut the grass using a variety of devices. I first wondered what each sliced blade cost the tax payer and wondered if this was a good use for the planets finite resources; a very human; if not British response; but I also wondered if the grass liked being cut. That chemical given off by the slashed blades is a distress signal; warning its fellow grass of what fate it has suffered. Does the recipient grass rush nutrients to the roots? Does the local fawner mourn the grass’s cuts? Is the grass crying biochemically from the pain: or laughing? Does it even feel pain or have a sense of humour?

Within the question lies much deeper significance; Mowing; the process of diving plant matter for increased aesthetic pleasure; is an attempt to perfect what we feel is imperfect. It stops the land changing; controlling the landscape and perpetuating a grass based environmental sheer: A physical reminder of man’s perceived power and mastery over nature. It’s also an act of desperation; using expensive manufactured tools to try and control the environment both in terms of time, energy and resources. Perhaps the grass be laughing at us when it spurts out its smell? It’s more ancient, adaptable, elegant and majestic than any torturous tool conceived of by its ape agitator.

Grass as a species will no doubt outlive our own. Could we write genetic messages into it; have we already? Mankind can use incredible amounts of energy, resources and time to temporarily transform a desert into grassland, but, like a candle it’s very rare that human behaviour can enhance systems partly and eternally beyond its comprehension and the pollution created in terraforming outweighs any positive to planet one hundred to one.

If left to its own devices, Grass will be replaced by other, more complex plants and animals. By cutting it; by forcing it to live by human rules, by enforcing perpetual infancy, we can perpetuate the grass’s existence; but to what end? if it’s long, it will be cut. If it’s dry, it will be watered, if it’s dead it will be replaced, if it’s got no nutrients, it will be neutered. The grass really has very little control over its own destiny:  however under these human conditions it can thrive as a heterogeneous crop: But would the grass rather be under natures rules instead? Can, and does grass commit suicide? Grass is not meant to live forever; it’s part of a cycle of creation, renewal and replacement; it’s part of a bigger biosphere that uses grass for a base for other plants. Grass is a means to an end; not an end in its self.

We can keep the sickly little blades going for years. Does the grass like having other weeds out compete it? Well, in the long term yes: because its beneficial for the grass. Can you imagine a planet covered by nothing but grass? Would the grass not just suck up all it could from the planet’s soil and find its self in the long term lacking what it needs to survive? More complex plant systems and animals have the ability to spread nutrients and offer other advantages like deep earth nutrient extraction; the grass has a role to play: it does not fear change, or death: its ancestors will also be grass; dancing eternally around their bigger brother plants.

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